Creating a human connection in your marketing message with Kameron Snow

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The most human marketing wins!

The most human marketing wins. Create a human connection with your marketing funnels using the LISTEN Framework,

Get your Framework today at

duanezingale.com/listen

Transcript:

0:00
reaching through the internet with your words to create a human connection.

0:15
marketing your movement is about building relationships with complete strangers and leading them toward their transformation, creating a culture of brand ambassadors for your message. This show will empower you to nurture your online community through relationship based marketing. Duane believes that creating a movement is one of the most powerful ways to market and monetize your personal brand, helping you gain momentum in your business by multiplying your message through the power of automated sales funnels. Now, let’s start marketing your movement. Hey, it’s Duane Zingale. And welcome back to the marketing your movement show. Thanks so much for joining us again on another episode

1:00
Where we’re hanging out as coaches, consultants, world influencers, bringing transformation to our movements and communities, I absolutely am excited to come and champion your message today. This show is always about creating a connection. And that’s why I created the listen framework to make sure we are having a human the human interaction in every automated experience that we’ve built to create a sales flow. The funnel is a great way to market and monetize your message. But don’t become the automated a whole like I did. Use the listen framework and keep digital empathy in your sales process. Get the framework today at Duane Zingale comm slash

2:00
Listen, I am so excited to hang out with you all and I had this amazing conversation that was mind blowing. I just a 30 minute life changing message changing clarity, experience like none other. I had a connection with my friend Cameron snow, who is not only a world class copywriter, but a true copywriting coach, he draws the message of your movement out and helps you gain clarity of how to share your stories, create a human connection and use words that truly build bridges of trust. If you don’t finish this podcast excited to go to Cameron and get help on your copy, then I did something wrong. And you need to throw rocks at me. Okay, just kidding.

3:00
Cameron has been a copywriter for the likes of some top top and digital marketers like Scott all for he is coaching people like Nick Kabuto and myself amongst other top class people he truly gets how to draw out your message and your story to create a connection. Without further ado, let’s jump into this episode.

3:36
Cameron It is so great to have you on the marketing movement show I’m so excited to to meet with you talk about having a human a human experience with the written word and how powerful our copy can be. And as the saying goes not be the marketer who ruins everything, actually create a conversation. So Cameron, tell me a little bit

4:00
About your movement and what you’re committed to cause. Yeah, great question. Great to be here on the on the show. So, you know, my big thing is, as you said, really putting the connection back into coffee. And that’s really kind of my passion is helping entrepreneurial leaders communicate their message in a way that really speaks to their perfect ideal customers and their clients, the people who are going to be aligned to their message, and not just generating leads for the sake of generating leads, but doing it for impact and change.

4:37
That is, that’s so good. It’s, it’s easy to get carried away thinking I need the biggest list when you can build a high quality small group of people who actually want to have connection to you. And of course, our friend or he says relationships are rocket ships. You know, I’m sure you didn’t get to this passion and cause to write coffee out of nowhere. What’s a little bit of the backstory that led you

5:00
be so excited to create words that put connection back into their great question. You know, I think the, I think the story of how I became a copywriter, and how I developed this passion for putting the connection in the copy, I think those are actually different stories. So I’m going to answer the question of like how did like the connection thing really come about and that story started, technically, July 4 2014, is when it started in the back the backdrop, and that’s the day that my wife and I were in a really bad car accident. been married for six, six months. It was our six month anniversary, we got rear ended. I was driving a little Toyota Corolla in their person’s driving a big GMC Sierra truck. kind of one of those cracks is where we should have been dead kind of thing. And I kind of walked away with no physical injuries and my wife

6:00
had like a bunch of stuff that just start causing problems, neck injuries, back injuries, and then a bunch of autoimmune stuff that came out of nowhere. But we spent most of the next three or four years just kind of like getting our bearings of like, what, what just happened, what happened and just figuring it out. And during that from 2014 to 2018, I gradually

6:24
just numbed out to life and became much, much less in tune with emotions.

6:34
And in 2018, God was kind of like, ya know, that we’re gonna, we’re gonna start moving forward on that trajectory. And so June 2018.

6:47
At this point, we were in Southern California free experimental medical treatment thing for Karla and we were having dinner with some friends and she reached out to grab a glass of water.

7:00
And she coughed, and all of a sudden her arm just exploded in pain. And it was not normal. And we’re like, okay, what’s going on here? So we got the pain meds and everything and she wakes up the next morning. She’s like, babe, My vision is blurry. And I’m like, oh, okay, this is like, this is pretty intense. I called the Doctor dude that we were down in Southern California working with and he’s like Cameron. It could be neurological. She might have had a stroke. I would get into the RV. And I had like a panic attack for like, two seconds. And like, all right, we got it. We got to go.

7:37
Fast forward. What ended up actually happening is that she had her classical insurance rate went down same time, pinched nerve and caused all this chiropractic issue. So the chiropractor you bring on the doctors vrF.

7:50
Well, after we came back,

7:53
three days later,

7:56
my wife woke up in the middle the night and I wasn’t there and she knew

8:00
Literally, there, I was totally drunk and on the phone with suicide hotline at three in the morning. And not because I was suicidal, but because I had googled something and I saw an ad. Thank you marketing. I said, Do you want to talk to someone? And I was like, yeah.

8:18
And that whole experience was kind of like the tipping point for, okay, I got some stuff that I need to deal with. And I need to like, fix it. So I started going to therapy and started doing a lot of stuff and like, you know, gradually starting to heal some of that emotional trauma.

8:38
And as that happened, I noticed that the way I was writing copies started to change. And the way I was relating to people on the other side of my words is starting to change, because I could feel a deeper sense of empathy than I ever had before when I was just writing coffee just for coffee. And I realized that this was like the real

9:00
This was the real stuff when you can like actually reach through with your words and create that human connection. Not only is it personally like transformational, but it’s also pretty healthy for your bottom line. And like creates a lot more revenue, a lot more profit and a lot more impact when you’re doing like that. And so that’s kind of like the story on how like the connection aspect landed with the copy thing. Is the two worlds of personal and professional just kind of collided in that moment and never looked back. Not really. Wow, well, that is riveting.

9:37
So when are you going to make the movie?

9:42
That’s that question. Because like, the way you phrased that question, I hadn’t really thought about it like that just now. Yeah, yeah, it’s really powerful. Because I mean, as you know, as a copywriter the story right is a big part of that connection. And you You of course, laid that out well

10:00
Why I love to give a little meta. That’s why I love to ask everybody’s story is the podcast start? What’s your high level? Why? What’s the story? Because if we get riveted into the story, we want to get to know you more. So a little meta narrative of why ask the questions I do.

10:16
And I know, I know you know how to draw that out really incredible. And this story, you want to tell it well, but of course, learning to tell it you probably didn’t get there overnight. You have this gift to extract someone’s story, what is what is the what is extracting a story and really turning it into one riveting and then to a riveting connection that creates that emotional bond between the writer and the reader. Yeah, and you know, specifically when it comes like copywriting and people are always asking, like, what story do I tell not just how do I tell my story, but what story I have so many and the way to

11:00
answer that is

11:02
when you’re doing like marketing narrative. If you can start with the core promise of your program, or you can start with the core message of your brand and work backwards, it becomes a lot more obvious what the story is. Like, as we just discovered, you asked me like, hey, how did the story of like coffee and connection, how did that work? And it triggered something new. I told that story before, but not with that alignment, not understanding those two pieces. And I realized that that is really way like for entrepreneurs. That’s like, how you find that story is a lot of especially when coaches are like, Well, you know, I help people do this specific thing. Why? And as soon as you start asking those questions, I’ve got a process called the iron paradox. And part of that is literally just asking the why question is doing the seven why’s which I didn’t

12:00
up with. But it’s literally just like, cool. What result do you provide? Why does that matter to you? Why does that matter? Why does that matter to you until you just like, get down to the very core of what’s going on? So I forgot what the question was. But I think you answered it. That’s how you extract somebody is as you asked exactly, the seven wise, wise, so if we were to do that to coach me right now, you might ask, so why are you doing what you do?

12:32
And then get into kind of the high level? Of course, it’s like, well, people have a message and a movement and movements change the world. That’s why I do what I do.

12:43
What was your question to that beat and then I and then we would talk about, okay, so why does that matter to you?

12:49
Well, what a novel concept, you just want to know why that matters to me. And then we’re going to do that seven times. So that matters to me. Because when I see any

13:00
pact nade, I see a legacy for children, their children, my children, I see something that comes. Maybe not a year from now. But something that comes from my kids when they’re adults. That’s kind of why I’m guessing the next question is, why does that matter? Yes, that it is. Now, that’s not always the next question we may get. We’re gonna ask that, like, why is that?

13:28
Yeah, yeah. So I’m just gonna take advantage of this podcast

13:35
and pull out my message.

13:38
It’s a fun way to experience it. So

13:42
legacy matters, because I’ve experienced the legacy of my own father. And I could probably tear up about this. I didn’t deserve it. I didn’t earn it.

13:54
But I got an inheritance from my grandfather when he passed and I

14:00
I’m able to build this business to serve my family and and do something I love because my grandfather decided to save up enough money for me to buy a home which gave me shoulders to stand on and a family that supported me. And I want to be that same

14:20
grandfather and father to my children

14:24
hmm That’s good.

14:28
That’s what you’re saying is I just created copy that connects Yeah.

14:34
Cuz like that that story and like, it definitely goes deeper. But

14:40
to reflect back like what you just did in that in like three questions. Sometimes it takes people like 30. Okay, to like, get down to that core and there’s always there’s always like deeper, deeper layers of it. But that’s like, such a solid base to like, be sharing that

15:00
story, because within that larger narrative, right of my grandfather left me this thing, there are situational stories within that narrative of like, the first time, like the moment you realized or the moment you learn, you’re getting near

15:18
the moment that you realize what was possible with this inheritance, like the story that you just told, like, I am able to do this and do this and this and this because of this. There’s a story in each of those little points. And those stories are like, powerful to like, tell you tell your audience and create that connection, because it’s perfectly in line with your message. Yeah, yeah. And it really I love that story. And of course, you know, as it matters,

15:48
so, so I’m assuming part of that story, you tell it well, comes from the depth of pain. I was feeling feeling before that inheritance came

16:00
And even getting into the depth of I went through something painful and came throughout adversity and know something I always love to champion is transform people’s beliefs with your powerful stories. Because when we when we level up our beliefs from our own story, we can take other people’s beliefs to the next level, which of course when people have hope, and and we’re moving forward in that society and we’re able to succeed, society continues to get better, we see greater freedom. Totally. So like, let’s put it all together, what do what is like the thing that you help people do.

16:38
The thing that I help people do right now is put empathy in their automation. So I LOVE LOVE, LOVE automation and using email automation, survey tools, logic, there’s a lot you can do. But it’s so easy to take those tools and get so excited.

17:00
Did that you automate the entire business on a client to the point of literally getting it to where I asked, What are the clients want? What are your customers looking for? What are they struggling with? And my client could not tell me what was going on because we’d spent a whole year automating everything that he had no personal connection, and neither marketer who’s supposed to know the audience. Yeah, no personal connection. And that’s when I realized I was the automated asshole. Oh, no.

17:33
And, and I realized what I need to specialize in,

17:39
is creating empathy in the marketing, which is why I love connecting with you, right? You’re taking words out of that, because you can’t have all these automations without words. And I took that and I went, well, what’s the most empathetic thing you can do? Well, you can listen. And when you can listen, with your automation, you can create

18:00
Tom contextual conversations. Yeah. And you’re always one conversation away from a life changing moment whether it’s the biggest contract of your life, whether it’s working with somebody incredible for me It could I pretty sure I just had one conversation. That may be the future of my business because I found somebody I can contract to get more done. And these conversations are everything. And when you automate them away, you don’t have them and your business stagnates and dies. It’s good. All right. All right. I got it. I got I got something in my mind. Okay. Do you know Do you remember the conversation that you had when you learned about the inheritance?

18:45
I can remember a conversation I had with my wife just before.

18:50
We lived in our dream city, bend oregon at the time.

18:54
And we did not know how we were going to pay rent next month. We were in pretty dire straits in a transition

19:01
Her business wasn’t thriving. I was freelancing and working my tail off and had no idea how we were going to pay the bills and how we were going to pay debt off. And when I got word, one is the sad word of my grandfather passing. My grandmother wanted to see it happen before she passed. So when I got word from my father, and had one word with him and word with my wife, I don’t remember the exact conversation but the amount of relief and oh my gosh, I could take care of my family. Oh my gosh, I don’t need to go move in with my parents or my in laws. love them to death. But right. We all know, we don’t want to go live with our analysts.

19:45
And of course, I didn’t want to leave my favorite city and I didn’t want to leave my friends. And so the conversation was very heartfelt and full of tears, because I get I got to continue living this dream.

20:00
We have the city of building a business of living the life of a freelancer and now consultant of seeing my wife’s business go from nothing to three years later, probably making a bit more money than mine. At least if you look at the bottom line, she makes more money than me. They’re really good at spending my business money on business growth.

20:21
If you really need that $2,000 course it’s gonna help me do something. Yeah. So here’s the Okay, now I’m putting the narrative together in my head. When did it when did it come to you? That would have been made possible for you. You could give double.

20:40
So we had a housewarming party.

20:44
And I was sharing the story. Here’s where we were and this was my my small community. You had about five, five or eight friends over and they were just asking questions just like this. Just because they wanted to know what what led to this

21:01
I came to that conclusion, and I use the word legacy is like,

21:06
I’m so excited because I get a home, that’s mine. And I get to have you all over. And we get to do life together. And we get to sing together, and we get our kids to grow up together. And we get to provide that safe space and getting to share that story with I mean, my senior pastor was there at the time.

21:26
And I knew it was like, and I have this house that I get to leave a legacy with. And

21:34
that kind of went, Oh, people need to have this experience. Yeah, inheritance is everything. And it’s sometimes at least from my backgrounds in the church world. We’re all leaving, right? I don’t need to leave something behind.

21:51
And I had this epiphany of like, we should all be thinking about what we can leave behind to give our shoulders as we started.

22:00
Stand up and grow and go through all this overcoming to stand upon for our kids. So they get to stand upon my shoulders not come from the roots up and I got to stand on my father’s shoulders and my father got to stand on his grandfather’s shoulders. And when you pass that down, generation after generation,

22:18
not, it doesn’t even have to be familial, because now we’re building communities and we get to give our shoulders too many. One reason behind this podcast, hey, come stand on my shoulders. Here’s everything I know, here’s everything I’ve learned. Go market your movement.

22:33
Yeah, so that’s that in that moment, that’s kind of when I realized the legacy part. And then of course, the marketing your movement message took another

22:41
three years to come up with.

22:44
And then another year to work with.

22:47
So it was not easy. All right. All right. So here’s how this works. Here’s how we connect all these pieces. Like we’ve got the grandfather story. We’ve got the house warming story, we’ve got the broken bend story.

23:00
There’s a good alliteration.

23:02
And then we’ve got, like, I put into feedback and automation, and I create contextual conversation. Alright, so I feel like your message is your legacy is just one conversation away.

23:18
Wow, you just took all that.

23:21
So that’s like magic trick to me. Yeah. Is there a method to that magic trick?

23:32
I’m not sure. But what I think the narrative is, is like, Hey, my name is Dwayne. And I help entrepreneurs,

23:44
put empathy back into their automation and create contextual conversations. And the reason that I do that is because I know that entrepreneurs are in it for legacy, and your legacy is only ever one conversation way. And I know that because it happened to me

23:59
and it’s

24:00
like telling the story of the backstory of like, we were broken Ben. And

24:09
I got a phone call from my grandma letting me know about this inheritance. And

24:16
it just hit me. And then a couple months later, like, I realized that this was a legacy that have been given to me and now it’s my responsibility and my privilege to help entrepreneurs build their legacies, because my experience

24:30
Wow. So

24:34
a, let’s see, a 20 minute conversation with you. Just changed, not changed, enhanced and skyrocketed my messaging to make it more human, more relatable, deeper connection. And just rooted right I feel rooted in everything you just said. Because he took everything I just said and nailed it. Just like this is

25:00
Something someone can do for themselves? Or was this something that really is is the power of working with a coach and a copywriter?

25:10
Yes and no. I mean, there’s obviously a process like where you can, you can put together your own messaging. But as, as someone once said, like, you can’t see the back of your own head.

25:23
And like no matter how good you are at messaging, or how talented of a marketer you are, when it’s your own stuff, fundamentally, it’s a different game. And we all feel that on some level. And we all need somebody to give us at least a second opinion. And sometimes it’s like, Yeah, why don’t you just tweak that case? And all of a sudden, it’s like, oh, somebody just like turn the lights on.

25:46
Oh, wow. That’s, that’s crazy. But what we just did like constructing that narrative, then you take all of the other like, marketing stuff, and you build it on that foundation. So it’s like cool.

26:00
results you plug in like results and testimonials on top of that. Right? And it’s like we create contextual conversations and here’s the results of that. When it’s like clear that the brand and the mission is driven by something deeper than I’m here to help you make money.

26:17
And apart from the competition, because nobody has your story, yeah, nobody has your story. That’s so true. Nobody has your story. And and that intersection of a story, meeting the right person. And of course, meeting the right offer kind of the results side of it is, is where you find the sweet spot for a funnel. And, and that’s what they call a niche. And some semblance, right, it was so powerful because you’ll stand apart in a completely unique way that nobody can steal even if you do the exact same thing as somebody else. Yeah. Yeah, hundred percent. And you also like clarify your target market because like, you’re like

27:00
The reason that I’m in business is for these these things and like values. I think we often get like a little vague about what values are. values are like tangible things, like a legacy is a tangible thing. Like we’re not just talking about, like, Oh, we want to like having an influence or like, no, like, my legacy that I received was a house where people gathered around the kitchen table, right? Like, it’s a tangible thing. And so it’s like, cool, we care about community, we care about family, we care about like, taking care of your your community and your family. Like those are the values. And so it’s very, very obvious that your customer is not like, Hot Shot driving an Aston Martin selling real estate in LA. Right. You know, it’s like very clear who your person is. It clarifies it. That’s true. Although, Aston Martin is my favorite car.

28:00
Yeah,

28:02
that’s so true. It I think it comes down to you’re able to tap into somebody’s core motivations that are in alignment with yours. And that’s the difference between a client you love and a client that you never get along with. And you’re like, why are we in business together? Yes. It’s like, I don’t care about helping you build a business. So you can just like, make more money. Like Money, money, really important. Don’t get me wrong.

28:33
But it’s like, money is by its very nature, a medium of exchange. That’s literally what money is. And so what’s the end goal? It can’t be an end in itself. No, not possible. No, it’s true as well. Otherwise, you become like Uncle Scrooge. Yeah, the world’s best cartoon. And you know, well, Scrooge was a bit of a

29:00
Scrooge.

29:02
Mm hmm.

29:04
So, putting word scripters on. You don’t even have to describe that. It’s it’s self descriptive, which which kind of gets into right copy if you can find words like that. It can describe in one powerful word. Most Americans, at least people, our age, the millennials, maybe the generation older than us who watch that cartoon. have a clear understanding of that metaphor in a moment. Yeah. So and that’s kind of knowing your audience, right? If I was talking to somebody who never seen that cartoon,

29:41
they wouldn’t be able to resonate with that. Yeah. For sure. Using those, those cultural, and like when you can find a cultural reference, that’s like underused, and not cliche. It’s like, super ninja.

30:00
Like Beanie Babies, is like, Hey, you guys remember when we were all teenagers and like collecting Beanie Babies was this crazy thing and they were constantly like shutting down and never gonna make Beanie Babies again. Do you remember? It’s like, Oh, yeah, tapping into like a cultural experience from, like, 15 years ago. And, you know, like a lot of people have had experience.

30:31
That’s what we’ll all be saying with the time this comes out with all that was so COVID you know, hashtag COVID hashtag COVID. Yeah. Use of COVID. Man. It’s It really is. And of course, you know, that’s a reference to cultural experience that the entire world has just experienced, but I can imagine how cliche that’s going to become, oh, well, what we’re kind of like tapping into right now is like, you know, we talked about

31:00
Like your story, and my story, the most important story is your customer story, which is kind of what we’re like talking about, like the, their cultural experience and what their story is. And when you broadcast your story and why you do what you do,

31:16
and then you’re able to enter into their story, and plugged in.

31:21
That’s when marketing works. It’s like, Hey, is this what’s going on for you? Are you struggling with the tech, trying to put together your clickfunnels account, and like create all these pieces and put the checkout page with the funnel and connect the funnel to kajabi and like all this stuff, and you’re just pulling your hair out, because it’s super frustrating. You just want to be able to automate the whole thing.

31:45
But then you realize that, oh, I’ve automated the whole thing and, like, there’s no human connection anymore. In my business. It’s like that’s, that’s their story. And your story plugs right into that

31:58
and helps

32:00
Michelle showed them the way to, you know, Nirvana of having problem solved automation without empathy. Yeah, that is wow, that really is a great summary I think of right what we do it summer camp around the fire What do we all want to do when we’re creating connection?

32:21
Hey, you know, tell me so I tell you so Oh, that makes me think of a story

32:25
of a story and the next person thinks of a story and then we’re all making smores together, having a moment. And then you have community. Yeah, because we’re all sharing stories together and smores together.

32:38
Yes. freakin love stories. Like, everything. Everything is the story. It’s It’s crazy. Like every industry on the planet is wrapped up in the story. Not just Hollywood. And Hollywood makes billions of dollars every year. Just from telling stories. good story. Yeah, that’s that’s very true. just telling stories. They’re entertaining.

33:00
To connect. Now there is a big difference from a great story. A good story, and it just plain ugly story. Yeah. How do we, how do we tell great stories and not tell ugly stories? Mm hmm. Great question. great stories are the ones that inspire us, show us what’s possible. And also, like, show us what’s actually going on. So

33:28
we live in moments. We live in situations. We don’t live in vague generalizations. But most of us write our stories in big generalizations. Like Alright, so you know, I went to the store and there was this crazy guy there and he was like, running around, you know, half naked. Yeah, it’s pretty wild. It’s just crazy thing ever seen. Yeah. And then I came home and it’s like, cool, very different experience from

33:57
like,

33:59
I knew something

34:00
thing was wrong the moment I parked my car, right and like you’re in the moment with the character of whatever the story is going on, like, I don’t know what, why this happens. But I have some of the craziest airline stories ever, just like the craziest airport stories, like, like the time that we were flying from. And what I think we’re flying from Israel to Greece back when we were we were living in Greece for a couple months. I was sitting next to this guy.

34:33
And he didn’t seem very friendly at first. So I’m just sitting there. We’re taking off and all of a sudden he turns he turns to me. He says, Oh, you haven’t been held with this money. And he just, and that’s a terrible accent because he was not like, I don’t know what that was. He wasn’t Jamaican. I’m not sure what accent I just did, but he was from Lebanon. And but he lived he was Lebanese but he like grew up in Australia. That’s

35:00
We have like some weird accent thing. And he pulls out a stack of

35:05
I think it was Israeli money, like Israeli bills, and it’s like kind of plastic. And he’s like, What is with this? He’s like, it’s stupid. This money is crap. And we’re like, okay, and he just starts pulling out different dollar bills from different countries is like, seems like you know, Australian money man. Australian money is awesome.

35:27
And I was like, Okay, cool. And like, That was weird. And then it got weirder when he asked me where he could buy it. Okay.

35:38
did not see that coming? No, no, it was just like, so how much is it? You know, in America for like a you know, like, a bag of coke and like, um, I, I don’t know.

35:51
We don’t we don’t do coke. He’s like, really.

35:55
And he just acted like it was the most normal thing in the world to like, be doing

36:00
cocaine in the news like, you know, the other night I drink a whole bottle of red wine. I was like,

36:05
that feels awful in the morning, actually, why would you do that to yourself intentionally? And is that like that was just a normal day. So anyway, that the story is that we tell it we get into the moments and you’re like, yeah, I can resonate with what it feels like sitting next to a weird guy on the airplane.

36:21
You know, just gives you something to post about on Facebook. You definitely and I think what’s ruining what you caught, there was the element of surprise. I had. I was, I was there. I was there. And I was there. And then you came up with and then he asked for cooking.

36:40
And it’s like,

36:42
What is going on? It’s like there’s that element of story element of surprise in the story. And I’m like putting that in there in the narrative. And you also can feel like what it was like for me,

36:55
random

36:58
and when you can make your reader

37:00
Feel what you want them to feel what you felt in that moment. You got a great story. Kind of great. So yeah, and I definitely felt super awkward there for a second. And I’m like, Yeah,

37:12
I do.

37:15
Really. And I didn’t feel like you’re going to sell me at the end of that. And that is not the weirdest story.

37:24
So we’re gonna have a new podcast with Cameron. Yeah.

37:30
Yeah.

37:33
Secretly it’s a storytelling podcast, but really?

37:38
Oh, that’s that’s to honey. I thought well, the cool thing about stories is like you can use there’s talking about storytelling. We’re doing storytelling today. There’s really two ways to sell with stories. One is telling the story behind the product, telling the story of why you created it.

38:00
And the other is using a story just as a hook to get people into the coffee. And then like extrapolating some commonality that it has with your product or thing, and you open with the story, you pitch the product, and then you close with the story. So the person that I’ve seen who does this really, really well is Lauren Belgrade. And she’s an email copywriter. She’s really good friends with Marie Forleo. And she did a she did a program with her called the coffee curds banded together. And she will just take random stories, just the most random story. She lives in New York. So she’s always got weird stories and will just start an email with just a completely random story. And somehow, and this is an art form somehow transition it into like, yeah, that’s why like my email copy kid today is like, you know, 47 bucks and then she always does PS and she closes the loop on the story.

39:00
like whatever it was.

39:02
It’s just like, it’s masterful, as long as we can nail it.

39:08
That That makes me think of a friend of mine.

39:11
Matthew, Kimberly, who writes, who does incredibly enticing email, he has a program about email. And it was just, if you could say sexy about an email, that that was the experience. That was sexy. Yeah.

39:30
You know, they’re reading in, you know, of course, you’re reading on your phone, probably in your jammies in the morning over coffee. Yeah.

39:41
We’re on the toilet. Yeah. And so, you know, that’s podcasting, email. Some of this content is in very intimate places. So we created connection with your words, and not to take away from it. We’re using coffee to have this conversation. It just wasn’t scripted. Yeah. So the words

40:00
have so much power. And you you talk about having a Bruce Wayne effect and using hertz. kind of wrap this up, because you got something powerful with a story

40:14
where you can juice it up a little bit to pitch your group and make everybody want to join with a good story. Yeah. What is this Bruce Wayne effect? Yes, yes, the Bruce Wayne templates. So basically I developed this thing

40:32
because of a client.

40:34
And I think I told her that I named this after.

40:39
But it’s I realized that something had already been doing but this is this is a story archetype. It’s a story type in a post type that you can use to announce something new.

40:51
Or announce a rebrand

40:54
where you’ve got something and you realize you haven’t actually talked about it, yet.

41:00
So this came about because my client had been presenting to her audience that she was just a marketer, just another marketer kind of thing. And as we dug into her story, I was like, wow, whoa, you’re not just a marketer, like some of these other goons out there who’ve never done anything. The you built a seven figure business. And then something happened to it. And, and so you’ve got like the rise and fall story. And to just like low key drops, like names I’m like, and you’ve worked with some of the top names in direct response marketing ever. Okay, so no, you’re not Bruce Wayne, you’re Batman.

41:47
And it’s kind of like the way that you tell the story is like, hey, audience like, I haven’t been honest with you.

41:55
You thought that I was just like, the way I’ve been talking about myself.

42:01
Just talking about like, I was Bruce Wayne, I’m just, you know, I’m just normal Joe Schmo, but actually am Batman, and you kind of like list out like, I’ve done this, I’ve done this, and I’ve done this. And it’s a great way for people who have been hiding.

42:18
Or for people who are have that, that block that we all face at the beginning, and even after the beginning of like, coming clean in some ways to your audience, and like owning your results, owning some some of the things that you’ve done, and just be like, yeah, this is me, and it’s pretty awesome. And also, if you want to work with me, boom, here’s the link kind of thing. So it’s a great way to tell the story, kind of get out from behind your your carefully constructed brand armor

42:50
and tell the real story so that you can create the connection and provide a way and like and if you want to work with Batman.

42:58
There’s a link

43:00
Here’s the link below. I just had an incredible experience working with Batman himself.

43:07
Copy who has the Bruce Wayne template? Where can we get this template?

43:12
We’ve got a link

43:15
and it’ll be in the show notes. We have a link in the show notes and if you join the Facebook group, yes, very good copywriting messaging for high performing entrepreneurs is available somewhere in there somewhere in the will make sure you get it I’m sure you probably ask questions and then somebody could say I want that template.

43:34
So your name is easier to spell the conversion copywriters Cameron hammertoe on the Internet of Things is primarily going to be Facebook. He’s got a Facebook group that is absolutely incredible. And these kind of experiences where you watch him on Ravel all the gold that’s in you that you didn’t realize you should be telling because you’re hiring

44:00
In your Bruce Wayne name when you really need to show up with your your Batman movie, yes. Wow

44:08
Come on, and we got jokers out there. We got some Joker’s we need to deal with no man. There’s a great cultural reference to analogies complete the guru problem out there. Say no to armchair marketers and work with the real Batman himself. The conversion copywriter the one and only Cameron’s No, that was the beginning of the

44:38
this has been so fun. I’ll be sure to have those links for the the template and the Facebook group in there and of course go hang out with Cameron He will draw gold and you saw how fast that was 20 minutes. We had an amazing message I would pay $500 to be able to extract that. Thank you for coming on the show to give me a free copywriting

45:00
coaching call. Yes, sir. Seriously, I don’t care what his race are. If you could do that to your message, you will go from stuck trying to tell your story stuck trying to craft your message and create connections with your words. Thanks so much for hanging out with the Chairman. I so look forward to when we get to hang out in person.

45:21
Hashtag COVID

45:24
Wow, what a great interview with Cameron that was beyond exhilarating. As you can see, I decided to get a coaching call in an interview. I hope you drew some great notes, great thoughts from how to draw your own out and as I mentioned, I’m going to drop Cameron’s link in the show notes so you can reach out to him. If you want to get a copy coaching. He truly is amazing and his community on Facebook group is a great place to go to just begin drawing in more

46:00
Because, as I’ve talked in previous episodes, your message is integral to a funnel working with the words you use the stories you tell, it’s everything. It’s it’s what captivates people. So, as always, if you haven’t done so already, I implore you to go and

46:22
lightly tap that subscribe button on your podcast light. Because it is so fun to hang out with you on the marketing and movement show. I would hate for you to miss an episode of this amazing content to champion your movement. And if you haven’t had the chance, go on your podcast player and leave a rating and review to let me know how I can continue to get behind you. And I would love to hear from you on the digital media’s Instagrams, Facebook I love hanging out having conversations and hearing your insights. I am at Duane Zingale on all the channels. You can find me at the marketing your movement show

47:01
Remember your message is important and you are leaving your digital footprint today to leave a legacy. a movement that lasts for too long.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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